SEEE YAAA!
That was the one sticking point with me, where is it in the Constitution that says I have to pay some fuckhead private insurer for health insurance?
I am still severely ass chapped about having to buy car insurance from a state level law and having to wear a helmet to ride a "bike" and just who the fuck are you that says I have to wear a fucking seat belt, my kid can't ride in the back of the truck, has to be in a government approved seat until they are carnival approved and are"This High" ?
Ya see?
This shit is incremental, yer the frog in the pot and they are turning up the heat, again.
Uhm, no.
Unless they turn this mandate into a Federal insurance program, ahem, Medicaid, in my opinion it is absolutely Unconstitutional for the Federal government to pass a law telling me I have to purchase health insurance with what little money I have left, from a fucking "For Profit" insurer or be fined.
Not gonna happen Barry.
Well, way I see it, it's like mandatory car insurance. Sooner or later you *will* run into somebody else, and who should pay for that -- you, or the other guy? Sooner or later you *will* get sick, and who should pay for that -- you, or me? Well, if you have the capability to pay for it, well. Duh. I have no problem with helpin' ya out by paying for what you can't pay for, but if you can afford to pay even a little bit towards your future health care costs, seems to me that whole personal responsibility thing comes into play.
ReplyDeleteNote that the new law also makes single men eligible for Medicaid for the first time, so if you make less than $14856/year (in 2012), you're eligible for Medicaid, and also the new law pays most of the cost of the coverage if you're making less than 400% of poverty level.
It still peeves me off that you can't just buy into a government-run insurance fund though. While health insurers aren't the demons they're typically made out to be by the Professional Left (if you eliminated private health insurers entirely you'd save less than 6% of annual health care costs in the US), being mandated to pay someone who has a profit motive to *deny* care to me is just crazy. But I just mentioned something of the sort on my own blog last night, about the incentives of Obamacare being all wrong if the goal is to provide health care rather than provide arbitrary claim denials...
- Badtux the Healthcare Economics Penguin
You can have your government run health insurance, but don't you force me into it. If I want to abstain and pay the doctor in cash/barter, that is my God given right. I'd be much better off if I did, seeing as how I'm laying out over $400 per month in "insurance", but my family of four hasn't "consumed" $400 total in the last 12 months. That money would be better spent on good food and preps than feeding some bloated fucking "insurance" company, and it is DAMN SURE better spent than feeding a corrupt fucking bureaucracy! MANDATE = SLAVERY. Put that in your fucking pipe and smoke it.
DeleteMayberry the Penguin Smoker
Mr. Cavanaugh, are you saying that if you keel over from a heart attack, or are diagnosed with cancer, you do NOT want treatment? Because treatment for these conditions are beyond the means of anybody other than a millionaire. A typical leukemia case costs around $1,000,000 while a heart transplant is about $500,000 plus about $40,000 year in anti-rejection drugs for the rest of your life. So if you have heart problems, you're just gonna say "eh, I had a good run,", put a pistol in your mouth, and kill yourself?
DeleteBecause if that's NOT what you do, *I* will pay for your freeloading ass when you go whining to the hospitals and doctors that you'll die if you don 't get treatment. So I have no problem with your notion *IF* you carry this card:
DO NOT TREAT / DO NOT RESUSCITATE
Otherwise, I call bull on your notion that the government has no place in making sure that *my* money doesn't pay for *your* health care when you're damn well capable of affording health insurance of your own.
And BTW, with Obamacare you're perfectly free to NOT purchase insurance and instead pay into the "uninsured" fund that'll pay your freeloadin' medical bills when you *DO* drag yourself into the ER whining about heart pains. And you might say "I'm not going to go into the ER if I have chest pains, I'll do the honorable thing and eat my handgun!". I call bull on that though, I haven't met anybody in my entire life who values their life so little that they'd eat a bullet rather than beg charity from me and everybody else in this country when they think they're dying.
- Badtux the "Don't like freeloaders" Penguin
And I call bullshit. I ain't met a guy my entire life if, a gun aimed at his head and someone telling him beg or be dead, wouldn't beg. I met plenty of blowhards who claimed they wouldn't ever do that, but they're just that -- blowhards, full of shit. When the end of their corporeal existence was starin' them at their face, they groveled and begged with the best -- which in the case of health care means *my* money, since I'm a responsible person and pay my bills. Including my health insurance bill.
DeleteAnd that's all I'm sayin' about that.
- Badtux the "Yeah right" Penguin
"Well, way I see it, it's like mandatory car insurance. Sooner or later you *will* run into somebody else, and who should pay for that -- you, or the other guy?"
DeleteAnd the founders handled just such a scenario quite well until some punk ass libtard had to go mucking up the system. It was called CIVIL COURT!!! And still is and is still used. So don't go telling me that MANDATORY ANYTHING is a good thing. The only things mandatory in this world start at birth (breathing, eating or crapping) and end at death!!!
(response to Badtux)
As for freeloaders, if you don't like 'em, why are you defending the exact system they WANT!! Your arguments ring hollow for that simple fact alone. Wake up kid, it ain't all unicorn farts and rainbows on the horizons and there are a lot of people that are ready to show just how pissed of they truly are about all the freeloaders.
And civil court really works well, "Diogenes", when the fucker in the clapped-out Buick is basically judgement proof 'cause he ain't got nothin' I can garnish or have the Sheriff sell at auction. You can damn well bet that the dude in the clapped-out Buick who ran into me a year ago wouldn'ta had insurance if not for that mandate, and he sure the fuck couldn't have afforded to pay for the repairs to my Jeep outta his own pocket, 'cause that was around $4K, and he had a whole $20 bill to his name on this whole planet.
DeleteSo you can take your useless civil court and shove it up your ass for all the good it woulda done when that moron ran the redlight and slammed into me. Just sayin'.
- Badtux the Well-insured Penguin
Sure he has something more than $20. He has his freedom and if he cannot pay for his mistakes you throw his worthless ass into prison ! If we all had to actually pay for "mistakes" less of them would be made. We do not need insurance, we need responsible people.
DeleteYeah yeah, Spud, and that gets my Jeep fixed... how? See, I'm a practical penguin. You're blowin' a buncha hot air bullshit about throwing people in prison, and I just wanna get my Jeep fixed by the asswipe that blew thru the red light. The car insurance mandate did that -- it got my Jeep fixed. Seems to me that your "solution" would actually cost *ME* money, since it's my taxpayer dollars that'd be payin' to incarcerate the asswipe that smacked my Jeep.
Delete- Badtux the Practical Penguin
Busted, you are 100% correct. What part of Individual Liberty don't the motherfuckers understand? They understand it, but like enslaving us to feed their corporate bankster masters for their own benefit. The fuckers will find out how far we can be pushed here pretty quick, and they ain't gonna like the response...
ReplyDeleteAnd I done said what I'm gonna say on that.
ReplyDelete-- Badtux the "I call bovine waste product, yo" Penguin
Badtux "the I can't imagine someone not brainwashed as I" Penguin. I don't talk shit. I mean what I say 100%. Too bad you can't fathom someone who means what they say and is not afraid to take care of themselves come what may. You are a symptom of the sickness which infects this country. Our immune system will flush you out eventually.
ReplyDeleteEven if you weren't full of shit, it don't matter. 'Cause you know damn well that 99.999% of the folks who ain't got insurance and get sick, they head straight to the ER and get treatment with *MY* insurance. That's what the numbers say in *this* reality, as vs. your fictional reality of unicorns and cotton candy trees where the majority of folks without insurance are proud free people insteada goddamned FREELOADERS. And I'm fucking tired of payin' for both *my* insurance and *their* insurance too, yo.
ReplyDelete- Badtux the "What color are the unicorns in your reality?" Penguin
Oh, so just because "99.999%" of "freeloaders" go to the ER means I will too? Means I should pay for them too? I have no "fictional reality of unicorns and cotton candy trees". My reality is "get the fuck out of my wallet with your socialist utopian bullshit or you will not enjoy the consequences". Yeah, I'm fuckin' tired of paying for that shit too, which is why I will no longer be paying for it. I won't pay, nor will I partake. I understand lack of conviction is a plague upon "humanity" in this day and age, but there are a few of us neanderthal knuckle draggers left who really do live by our own devices, and don't want or expect anything from anyone.
ReplyDeleteSo can you figure out a solution to the freeloader problem *without* a government mandate? I'm awaitin' your magical freedom-lovin' Libertopian solution. I suppose we could just give all uninsured people a gun with one bullet in it and tell'em to eat it if they get sick. You first, though, 'cause I know what most folks would do -- they'd promptly put that one bullet through *your* eyeball, not through their own.
ReplyDeleteOr we could tell doctors and hospitals, "you're not allowed to treat sick people who ain't got insurance." Thing is, they have this thing they call the Hippocratic Oath. Which ain't the same thing as the Hypocritic Oath. So they'll treat'em anyhow. Then charge *me* for both my health care costs, and those sick people's health care costs. Which is what they do right now. So you say I should just fucking put up with all these goddamned freeloaders 'cause you wanna be free to kill yourself if ya get sick? Dude, you *DO* have the freedom to kill yourself if ya get sick under Obamacare. You just don't got the freedom to avoid paying into the health care fund, 'cause mandating that's the only way to deal with the motherfucking freeloaders.
I don't get it. Why do you defend freeloaders?
- Badtux the "Got answers?" Penguin
Hey penguin boy....
ReplyDeleteEver heard of "Unintended Consequences?
People like YOU are going to find out just what a hornets nest they are kicking... and real soon...
We will see who among us is going to be "eating bullets" as you are so fond of saying...
Craig has actually been nice to you so far... You should count yourself lucky for his restraint.
On the other hand, you should REALLY count yourself lucky that someone like myself hasnt had this little conversation with you in real life... Because that "Unintended Consequences" thing? well, it can be a real bitch sometimes..
"Ain't nobody told me shit about how I can get all them goddamned freeloaders that are leeching offa my health insurance to quit freeloadin' *WITHOUT* a mandate of some sort, "
DeleteHere's my mandate. Get rid of medicaid and put it back into the free market where if someone wants to DONATE that service they can, instead of stealing it out of every bodies pocket.
GET THE FUCKIN GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE PRIVATE INDUSTRY
How ya like that mandate? Not that I really care what you think.
So how's that gonna work? You think doctors are just gonna give away free healthcare without raising *my* rates to pay for it? What color are the unicorns in your universe again? 'Cause in *MY* universe, there ain't no free lunch. In *MY* universe, doctors ain't fucking charities, they'll treat the uninsured, then *I* will pay for it in higher healthcare costs. Which is what's happening today. Fuck that shit, yo.
DeleteIn other words, your "solution" simply won't work in *THIS* universe. Maybe in a universe where the unicorns are green...
- Badtux the Reality-based Penguin
The reason the uninsured are treated and the cost "passed on" to the paying customer is because of EMTALA. It's another one of those wonderful mandates with unintended consequences.
DeleteI think the intended consequences were that folks would stop being dumped out of ambulances into gutters to die. Kinda messy, kinda gross havin' all those dead bodies around with all the flies and shit buzzin' around them, especially after they get ripe and their skin bursts open like a rotten tomato. Great smell. Ever smelled it? Wonderful smell. Smells like plague. And y'know what? It worked. I ain't seen any dead bodies in the gutters surrounding a hospital in, like, forever! Funny how that works, eh?
DeleteBut now that we solved the problem of dead bodies after patients got dumped in the streets when the hospital decided they wasn't gonna take'm 'cause they wasn't insured, now we gotta figure out how to pay for that. And I'd rather that the the folks who are gettin' the care pay for that, not me. 'Cause even though I appreciate the fact that there ain't no bodies stinkin' up the streets like there is in most 3rd world countries, I'm damned tired of payin' the medical bills of deadbeats who damn well can afford their own healthcare.
BTW, I'm wondering -- HAVE you smelled a ripe body? It's such a glorious smell, everybody oughtta smell it at least once in their life... and then try their best to forget it, but that's part of being grounded in the *real* world instead of the *bullshit* world, yo.
The unintended consequence is that a service is provided with no payment given, promised, or implied. This leads to it's ultimate end of abuse of the ED.
DeleteYes, I've smelled many ripe bodies. I dissected one in school. I treat them on a daily basis. You get used to it and learn to ignore it. My 'world' is very grounded in reality.
Ah, very good. So now you know why lots of dead bodies dumped in the gutters around the hospital 'cause they showed up at the hospital doors and didn't have insurance would be Bad For Business :). Thus the notion that we ought to provide at least some level of treatment at the ER door -- the level of treatment required to keep'em from being a dead body. But as you say, somebody has to pay for it, and that's a little nasty reality that mandates solve -- the folks showing up at the hospital doors pay for it, instead of me. Wow, what a concept!
DeleteSo what we have here is Tux talking sense to a klatsch of people (or one guy with some sock puppet IDs) whose underlying mindset is one of violence, suicidality and a wish for berserkerdom. "I WANT TO DIE WHEN I GET SICK!!!!! I WANT TO SHOOT ANYBODY WHO TELLS ME TO DO ANYTHING I DON'T WANT TO!!!!!! WAAAAAH! I'M A SPOILED 4-YEAR-OLD!!!!!" Violence and a fantasy of being able to kill people is what excites them in their twisted imaginations. It's the thinking of the lone gunman inside the college bell tower with a sniper scope.
ReplyDeleteI deal with people like these at my job. I work in a hospital psychiatric ward. People like that suffer from a syndrome labeled as "antisocial personality disorder." They have always been with us, the angry drunks, the loser loners, the old farts yelling "Hey your little bastards -- get off my lawn!" They are so filled with hate of others -- which ultimately stems from the hatred they have for their own selves -- that they cannot imagine cooperating with other people.
On a large scale, they cannot conceive of a society where people are all in it together. They're kind of like autistic people, who are so badly damaged in their brains that they're unable to interact. They exist only inside the universe of their horse-blindered psychology. Too bad they have captured the ideology of one of the two main political factions in the United States.
I hope you hate-filled loners get your wish, to drop dead or kill in a place where nobody notices until the rats have eaten your carcass down to the bones. Unfortunately, you are likely to finally snap and murder a few people around you, probably starting with members of your own family. The forces of division you have unleashed might end up splitting the "United" States into a series of anarchic, disorganized gun battles. I'm so glad I escaped that sad, declining country. So thank you, Cavanaugh, for reminding me how good it is to live in a country with socialized medicine, and without such a mass of alienated people seething with hatred of everyone around them.
Yawn, still waiting for YOUR solution to the problem of people leeching free healthcare off of *my* insurance... name-calling and insults ain't a solution, it's just bullshit. Just sayin'.
Delete- Badtux the Still-waitin' Penguin
You're not going to listen anyway so what's the fucking point. I got better things to do than argue with brick walls.
DeleteYah yah, got called on spewing bullshit rather than solutions, then whine off back to your own walled garden where ya ain't gotta hear nobody who disagrees with ya. Typical.
DeleteBTW, I ain't a fucking liberal, not that there's anything wrong with being one. What I am, is a practical man. I solve problems, I don't give a flying fuck about ideology and bullshit. That's why my employer throws six-figure money at me, 'cause I get shit done and don't whine about how it can't be done or it's someone else's problem or it ain't in keepin' with some ideology or philosophy or political whatever the fuck. You got some practical solution to a real problem I got -- freeloaders leechin' off of *my* insurance -- I don't give a flying fuck what ideology it comes from, left wing, right wing, fuck, MARTIAN wing, as long as it solves the problem.
But you got nothin'. Just bullshit.
- Badtux the Practical Penguin
The Hippocratic Oath doesn't mean anything in a legal sense. It doesn't really mean anything to me in a medical sense either as I don't need an oath sworn to Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea to do what I do.
ReplyDeleteThe mandate for car insurance works, because if you can't afford it, you don't get it, and 'can not' drive a car without risking a ticket. No where does it compel anyone to pay into a pool to provide any insurance to someone. So your analogy fails.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@nunya
ReplyDeleteBe careful, you have no idea who you're messing with. Craig Cavanaugh is a legend in his own mind, a real patriot.Craig's sidekick Diojeans is a real parrot too.She's re-writing the Constitution,because the US is going down(snicker) and after the smoke clears all of the real patriots are going to save America. They are having Patcoms all over the USA, they get together and discuss their plans for reinventing America.They also drink lots of beer and eat loads of BBQ. They need your help. Please consider donating to their worthy cause.
You're right, we are having PATCOMS. And there was beer and BBQ at the first two. So fucking what? The Constitution is flawed, which any human endeavor is bound to be. Those flaws have brought us to the point which we now find ourselves: in debt over our heads and our children's heads. We of a like mind are coming together to build mutual support against ignorant fucktard petty tyrants like you who would dictate to others how they should live to fit your own little utopian ideology. So fuck you "anonymous" coward.
DeleteCraig Cavanaugh
Ok, go get the windex and wipe your screen off, I imagine it's spattered with froth....
DeleteWasnt a drop of alcohol at my Patcom.... and the only bbq was in the canned beans.. However, there WERE approx 45 people with battle rifles with full magazines, not to mention everyone's sidearms...
ReplyDeleteI wonder why we didnt have any pussies like penguin show up?
Since you have missed the mark that much in what you THINK happened vs what actually DID, It shows that you are the one full of bullshit...
IF you want to TRY to make me spend MY MONEY on something, come to my house personally to do it.. OTHERWISE STFU!
You let a guy push you around for *months*? Jesus fucking Christ on a goddamned stick, that's lame! I had one of them bully bosses once, a big ole' bull of a man and I was a shrubby youngun' at the time. The *first* time he tried to push me around, I gave as good as I got (gotta admit I can be a fiery-ass coonass when I'm riled up) and he quit that shit. We had our, uhm, "heated discussions", over the years I worked for him but when I turned in my resignation for a better job, he first tried offering me more money but when I turned that down, he was, like, "damn I'm sorry to see you go, we had our go-arounds but that's just both of us being men." And then a year later he tracked me down where I'd moved off to, in another city halfway across the country, and tried to hire me back and I politely turned him down 'cause I was happy where I was. Now ain't that a better solution than breaking a dude's nose?!
ReplyDeleteHuh? You just contradicted yourself entirely. I'm "lame" for ignoring an asshole for months, but somehow fucked up for breaking his nose? It wasn't my boss, Badtux the reading comprehension impaired Penguin, it was some bully jackass in Jr. high whose nose I broke. Ya know, maybe if you slowed down and actually absorbed what you read instead of instantly firing off whatever materializes in your pointed penguin head, you might become a decent person.
ReplyDeleteI have no argument against what you've said about paying for other people's shit. Never did. I sure as hell can't afford to... BUT, I think government MANDATING folks do ANYTHING is fucking tyranny. There was a time before FDR fucked up the economy in this country by imposing wage controls when employer provided health insurance was unheard of. It came to be because of the WW II wage freeze. Employers circumvented the wage freeze to attract high quality employees by offering "benefits" instead of wages. It was all downhill from there. Government intervention always results in unintended consequences, and those consequences are never good.
You like the car insurance analogy. Look up "no fault insurance" and get back to me. AFTER you drop your vindictive bend...
AH HA HA HA HA HA! I love to read shit by gun-fondling Internet tough guys. When the collapse comes, you fuckers will wind up turning your guns on yourselves, probably after shooting a few other people first, including members of your own families. Because the people closest to you REALLY PISS YOU OFF and they're a lot easier to get to and kill than strangers.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad I moved out of the United States. I'm sitting pretty in a good-paying job in a sane country that tries to take care of all its citizens. There are a few who are cracked, but that's why I have a job. Canada tries to assist its countrymen and women, instead of hoping that they will die in a ditch somewhere like hate-filled American freaks. And Canadians have a generous enough spirit that they don't mind paying extra taxes to help the unfortunate. Americans like Cavenough are the grown-up equivalent to angry 4-year-olds who shout "MINE!" when another child looks at their toys.
I used to think that it would be cool to live in my city close to the U.S. border so I could see the U.S. crumbling. But it's too creepy to be that near a dying monster. My wife and I are probably going to move back to Australia in the coming year. It's nice to be affluent enough and with enough marketable skills that I can choose which country I want to live in. Glad I'm not so pathetic I have to write sentences like "I sure as hell can't afford to... "
And as far as "BUT, I think government MANDATING folks do ANYTHING is fucking tyranny" I say GOD DAMN THOSE FUCKING TYRANNICAL STOP LIGHTS, ANYWAY!
roflmao
DeleteDamn It looks like I missed the show, too many retards in one spot.
ReplyDeleteBill Nye